Rabbi Michael Melchior, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs for the Government of Israel, Briefing on the State of Israel

On June 24, 2002, National Council of Jewish Women hosted a teleconference with Rabbi Michael Melchior, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs for the government of Israel. The following is an edited excerpt from that conversation.

MARSHA ATKIND (NCJW NATIONAL PRESIDENT): Good morning. We're privileged to have with us Rabbi Michael Melchior, who is the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs for the government of Israel. Rabbi Melchior was born in Denmark and received his rabbinical ordination in Jerusalem. He's from a long line of Scandinavian rabbis and has served as Rabbi of a Jerusalem congregation since 1986.

Rabbi Melchior also holds the title of Chief Rabbi of Norway since 1980. He is the International Director of the Ellie Weisel Foundation, as well as an administrator of various human rights, immigration, and educational organizations. Among his many awards are the Norwegian Nobel Institute's Prize for Tolerance and Bridge Building. Rabbi Melchior has written numerous articles and has published in the Israeli and foreign press. We're very pleased to have him with us this morning to talk about anti-Semitism and what's going on in the world today.

RABBI MICHAEL MELCHIOR: I appreciate the effort of people to learn about the State of Israel and the state of the Jewish people. Now is a very difficult time. It's a time when sometimes you need to go back a few steps and get some perspective. In the Torah we read about the prophet Balaam who was paid to curse the Jewish people. He went to the top of the mountain, and there, instead of cursing, he said blessings.

To curse, to have a monologue, to have hatred and incitement, to broaden the gaps, to present terror -- there is no perspective in that. There's no future in that. There's no hope in that -- not for them and not for us. If you want to come up with a blessing, you need to have some kind of perspective of Jewish history, of the present situation, with hope towards the future. This is really our commitment. We are committed to creating a different future. And it's very difficult to do that in the midst of hatred, incitement, and terror.

Terror is evolving from a philosophy that is deeply against the basics of democracy and civilization. I don't buy that terror stems from frustration, lack of hope, lack of a future -- because it came when that hope and proposals for peace were clearly on the table.

Nobody can permit what's going on today. It’s sheer madness. People are being blown up. They're blowing up our young ones -- in the pizza bars, the discotheques, the school buses. They want to take our future away from us. And no one can accept that the future is taken away. No one can accept a society where you have a mother standing up in front of the whole world and saying that this is the only way forward, and she hopes that all her other children will do likewise, instead of crying for her child who has lost his life and blown himself up.

This is not a philosophy with which you can make peace. It is a philosophy of terror, hatred, and anti-Semitism. I think it's important to say that at the same time both the Muslim fundamentalism and the nationalist fundamentalism are competing with each other. This does no good for anybody. The Muslim fundamentalism is a grassroots movement which leaves no room for anybody else -- no room for the State of Israel, no room for Jews, no room for Christianity or the rest of the world -- even no room for the Arab states because it's a totalitarian world view which has no room for the other. But it's not all of Islam. And even now we see that there are Muslim leaders who understand that if the Koran becomes a recipe book for blowing up the future of humankind, then there's no future for Islam either. Therefore, we need to start these dialogues. The idea behind the Oslo process was: "Let's agree on what we can agree on, let's build up confidence, and then take all the difficult issues down the road when there's enough confidence which has been built up." Instead of building up confidence, both societies — but mainly in the Palestinian society, the hatred, the mistrust, the delegitimization of the process was allowed to expand.

I discussed the peace process with then-Prime Minister Barak on the way to Camp David. He was convinced that Camp David would succeed, but he was very modest. He said, "Fifty-one percent, we come out with a peace agreement for the future." And I said to him, "How do you think that Arafat can go back to his people and say that he's made this historic compromise with a people who they have described -- in kindergartens, in mosques, in their prayers, in their schoolbooks, in their television -- as the antithesis of everything which is good?"

Both sides haven't touched the narratives of each other. We haven't broken down the myths about each other. And for there to be another peace process, we need to deal with the people here, not just the politicians sitting in some room, cutting a deal. We need to touch the identity of the people -- their religions and traditions - in the narrative of the people and the culture of the people.

Therefore, we need all good forces -- also the rest of the world -- to help us with this process and to understand the processes going on. They're affecting, also, Jews all over the world. The wave of anti-Semitism doesn't end with the borders of Israel. It reaches Europe, Canada, and Australia -- even campuses in United States. Anti-Semitism is a monster -- it is a cancer that every generation turns up in a different disguise. We have to take away the disguise of Anti-Semitism and show exactly what it is.

You can't say that you're attacking the national identity and the expression of national identity in the State of Israel, and say that you're not against Jews, just as you can't be against the national identity of the French and say that France should not exist as a state in Europe today. It doesn't work that way.

That, of course, doesn't mean that anybody who criticizes the State of Israel and its government policy is an anti-Semite. It demands a sophistication to fight anti-Semitism today in its old form, and in its new forms, because today the State of Israel, thank God, is not without possibility to defend itself. We're not in the '30s now. Jews live today in democracies throughout the world. And we're not in the '30s because we have a State of Israel today, and thank God for that.

I think that there are also signs and rays of light in the Arab world. Don't forget, it was only 30 years ago when all the Arab countries in Khartoum said there can never be recognition, there can never be negotiations, and there can never be peace with the State of Israel. Today all the Arab countries gathered in Beirut all agreed -- even the most extreme -- that on certain conditions, there can be full normalization with the State of Israel.

It's a positive thing. There is a crack in the hatred. There are religious leaders who are willing, together with Jewish religious leaders, to go together and say that violence against human beings is not a sanctification of the name of God, but is the biggest desecration of the name of God. That is a very positive development that we shouldn't push aside. It's a deep debate that is going on in the Arab world. It's necessary for that debate to fight itself out and to come up with results to create a different future for all of us.

And therefore, in this time when we are bleeding and hurting and going from funeral to funeral, it's important for us to know that nations blow cold and they blow warm, but that the Jewish people are with us. We're part of the people that’s hurting. We're all there for that part of the people. And for this I thank you. I thank you for wanting to be a part of the perspective, standing on the mountaintop and being a part of what will give hope for our future.

My father, who has told me always that to be a Jew is to be an optimist, just said to me that if we don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, it's not because there is no light there, but because the tunnel is not straight. We as human beings don't always know how to look around corners. There are the rays of the light there, and we need to develop them and take responsibility for our future.

It's easy just to lift our hands and say it's impossible and so on. But this is where we're going to be for all future. We're in the Middle East. We have 22 Arab countries around us. We're living with a lot of Muslim countries around us. We're not neighbors of Canada nor of Sweden, and not of many other places where it might have been a more comfortable neighborhood. We need to deal with the terms of the Middle East. And I have great confidence that we will try again and again, and we will succeed.

Thank you very much for listening.



Q&A for "A Conversation with Rabbi Michael Melchior":

MS. ATKIND: Thank you, Rabbi Melchior. I'm going to start with one question. You said that to be a Jew is to be an optimist. It’s very difficult today here in the United States, reading the newspapers and seeing on the television what's going on in Israel, and hearing, also, about anti-Semitic incidents around Europe and in this country and even in your native Scandinavia. We always thought of that part of the world as very hospitable to Jews, and now all of a sudden we're hearing some things that are disturbing.

RABBI MELCHIOR: I said that to be a Jew was to be optimistic — I didn't say that it was easy to be a Jew. Then I would be lying, and I try not to do that. It’s a challenge, and it's a long path. Don't accept all the stories that are going around on the different websites. It's not just because somebody is critical (of Israel) in Scandinavia or somewhere else. That's still not anti-Semitism, although there are some aspects of that also.

But it's worrying. They're burning down synagogues again. They're attacking schools. They're attacking Jews. Jews are afraid. They're afraid to send their children to Jewish institutions to identify as Jews. And we should deal with it -- take it as a chance to create necessary coalitions. There is a vast majority of people who are disgusted by it.

There is an attempt to make Israel the new apartheid state. A coalition of fundamentalist Islamics, of the extreme right-wing fascists who hate all foreigners and, for sure, Jews, but also Muslims, want to turn Israel into the new apartheid. This is a coalition together with all the traditional anti-Semitic motives that can only be dealt with by our also creating coalitions.

Today, anti-Semitism is not mainly a Jewish question. Anti-Semites may have started with the Jews; they never ended with the Jews. Anti-Semitism is an attack of democratic civilization, and we need to deal with it.

Also, what you see from the Middle East is disturbing. It's the most terrible thing. I've gone to many of the funerals -- I think that the least we can do as a government is to go and look in the eyes of the families and try to comfort them and be with them.

But again, look at some perspective of Jewish history. Look where we've been and look where we are now with all the problems. Look at all the seas we've gone across. We started when we went out of Egypt. We went into the Holy Land. And we will also cross this sea into the land that is flowing with milk and honey, and not flowing with blood.

But they can have land for peace. They can't have territories for terror. And they have to learn that. It might take years, but we will continue.

SHARON SWERDLOFF, NEW YORK (NY) SECTION: I think it's commendable to hear optimism in the Rabbi's voice. However, I would like to know how we go about encouraging this kind of optimism when, in fact, from onset -- from the youngest child in school -- the Muslim population in Israel espouses hatred. But also rising up among the Palestinians, there would appear to be some moderates. How do we go about starting this change for communication?

RABBI MELCHIOR: I'm not saying it's easy. But in 20 years, I've had all kinds of secret meetings with Muslim leaders -- the most important leaders. They have never been willing to go public because they're afraid for their lives.

Just a couple of months ago, we gathered under the auspices of the Archbishop of Canterbury. We gathered all the central Muslim leaders of the Palestinian areas and of Israel, the Jewish leaders and the Christian leaders. And they all signed a joint document -- the only signed document made between Israelis and Palestinians over the last four years. They all signed it in a deep commitment to change this future. These are the central Muslim leaders. And they said it in front of their own people, signing it in Arabic.

Just now there is a petition of more a thousand signatures of the leading intellectuals of the Palestinian society. This is published in the Palestinian newspapers saying that they have to put the violence behind them and create the peace process with Israel, and that this is their only hope and only alternative. That has never happened before. And if it had, it never would have been printed in their press. Now, do you think it's sufficient? No. But we have to be encouraged by these things, help them develop and lend them an ear, and not just have a cynical reaction.

ELEANOR ELBAUM, (PRESIDENT, Rhode Island (RI) Section): It seems like every time we agree to make another settlement in Israel, it is a real thorn in the side of the Palestinians. And I wonder what concessions the State of Israel is willing to make regarding the settlements, and what it’s willing to lose.

RABBI MELCHIOR: The settlement issue is one that we can solve. And you know, this is an internal Israeli conflict. I think that you will find the vast majority of Israelis are willing to abandon all the settlements as necessary for a peace agreement. We're going to have an enormous internal fight about it, but this is something we've brought on ourselves and for which we have to pay the price. But we will solve that issue.

ALEENE BARASH, PENINSULA (NY) SECTION: Do you believe that anti-Semitic actions are a result of long planning and that the nuclei of terrorists in each country have grown into large and active groups?

RABBI MELCHIOR: I think that there is a strategy; I don't think that there is a careful planning of anti-Semitism. There is a strategy of delegitimization of the Jewish national identity, of the State of Israel. The U.N. is one of the main arenas for that strategy. The U.N. is not our enemy. Our enemies are the anti-Semites, but they're using the U.N. The Human Rights Commission -- that, by definition, is not allowed to talk about human rights in our neighboring country. So there is a clear strategy, and there are places where we can see the model. You need motivation and a little dynamite, and then it's easy to do so much damage. One terrorist can do immense damage. And even if our army, which has a very good security service, gets hold of 95 percent of the terrorists, there will still be the last five percent that can spread so much killing and also lack of hope for the Palestinians.

ADA STAUSBERG, BALTIMORE (MD) SECTION: What can we do to get a better position for Israel in the United Nations? And what are your thoughts on boycotting countries that have shown anti-Semitism?

RABBI MELCHIOR: What we can do, first of all, is present our case. We can coordinate forces. I'm trying to create, together with Jewish organizations, an international commission to combat anti-Semitism. It would be mostly non-Jews. We're setting it up in three countries in Europe first, as a pilot, but then we'll do it all over the world. Just this morning, we had a big meeting with all the major Jewish organizations to prepare for Johannesburg [South Africa], where there will be a big U.N. conference on the environment.

The boycott is not our weapon. The boycott is the weapon that is used against us and is a threat to Israel, to Israel's economy, and to Israel's social fabric. It is not a threat for the future of France or Norway. And the Palestinians are the first ones to suffer when we can't sell our agriculture in Europe. The Norwegian foreign Prime Minister opened a speech on May 17 with one message: the new anti-Semitism is disgusting, and boycotting will not bring any fruitful things for the future of the peoples in the Middle East.

I don't think that the way of dealing with it is by saying, "Well, you boycott us -- we'll boycott you."

MS. STAUSBERG: What can we do as an organization?

RABBI MELCHIOR: You can learn the issues, be involved, and work together with us in our efforts. We would be more than grateful if your organization would write articles, know the issues, go to your Representatives and Senators, and go to the Jewish communities.

SUSAN LEVINE, (PRESIDENT, Cleveland (OH) Section): My question has to do with the title of today's teleconference, which is titled "The New Anti-Semitism." And my question is, "Is it really new or is it just renewed?" And how do you suggest we respond to this on a local level?

RABBI MELCHIOR: Well, I think it is a new disguise. I call it the "old new anti-Semitism," because we know all of its features. We know how it works. We know how it delegitimizes. We know how it demonizes. We know the accusations, and we know the methods. It's also important to present anti-Semitism in this new disguise, and then to take away the disguise and show that it's really just the same old anti-Semitism we know so well. By educating, informing, going to the government levels and public relation levels, by creating coalitions -- this is how we are fighting this new anti-Semitism. It's the only way I know. Thank you.